Tuesdays With Morrie

Jon Perry  00:09

On the fourth Tuesday, they will talk about death. Welcome to the Master Mind Library. I am Jon Perry, the Reach Architect and to my right is

 

Derek Egeberg  00:22

Derek Egeberg, the Approval Coach.

 

Jon Perry  00:24

And today we’re going to talk about Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom, this has been around now for 30 years in that crazy it is. And you know, it feels Tuesdays with Morrie . And we’ll get a little bit more into why it’s titled that yet. This has been the third recorded podcasts that we’re doing, if this is the fourth podcast we’re doing. And we do these on Tuesdays, we do we do do these on Tuesdays. And thinking back to it, we’ve been meeting almost every Tuesday, for over a decade, in one way shape or form. One could say we are Tuesday, people,

 

Derek Egeberg  01:00

We are Tuesday, people. So good intro.

 

Jon Perry  01:04

Thank you. Thank you. And it’s very important to also mention this was your mother’s favorite book.

 

Derek Egeberg  01:09

It was.

 

Jon Perry  01:10

Your mother, Sally passed not that long ago as well, two years ago, and you shared with me that this was her favorite book, she even had a mural in her house. And this book was so important that they actually worked this cover of this book into the mural…

 

Derek Egeberg  01:26

They did.

 

Jon Perry  01:26

of her house, and she was so proud of that mural,

 

Derek Egeberg  01:29

oh, you know, what’s just kind of a sideline, it’s interesting that you don’t know what you know, until it’s later in life type thing. And you know, as a, as a younger kid, high school ish, a mom gave me the book. And I didn’t understand really what the point of the book was back then. But more importantly, not more importantly, but she did, she hired a guy and literally painted from one end to the other of the house in her family room, this mural, and she painted a table not unlike this, and had a copy of Tuesdays With Morrie sitting there on the table for everybody to see when when they walked in. And, you know, if you really paid attention, she had some other hidden things in the mural. Super cool. And you know, it’s too bad. You can’t just take that wall out and take it with you. But I do have some pictures, we can post those on our web page if you want. Just kind of cool. But no, this book was introduced to me by my mom 30 plus years ago. And you know, it was one of those that that I was not an avid reader, but I read and my mom said, hey, look, I really want you to read this book. And I did. And it was kind of slightly impactful then as a young kid, but didn’t really pay attention. And then you and I kind of had this idea of the mastermind library. And I don’t know what hit me, but kind of the it’s a Tuesday thing, and what are some of the meaningful books that we’ve read before. And that’s what made me suggest the book now, as somebody who’s read it for the first time. What’s your takeaways? What What’s your thoughts on the book and the concept,

 

Jon Perry  03:05

I think it is a great reminder to not be trapped in life, to live it to take advantage of the moments you’re in and feel them. It talks about when an element was detachment, you can’t detach until you fully embrace that emotion and whatever it could penetrate through you. And you feel it in your soul. And then you can detach to be part of a situation talks about, you know, we all gonna die, yes. We are so prideful, egotistical, naive to think that it’s not going to happen to us, right? Yet, it’s always going to happen to us at some point in time, our numbers gonna be up, and we can review our life as to what we did with it. Did we make an impact? You know, did we help someone? Were we selfish? Were we spiteful? Did we hold grudges, and don’t want to live with those kinds of regrets. And so there’s many aspects I can take from this book. You know, as far as living, it also talks about dealing with the death of someone you care about. You know, one point in time, he said that death isn’t the end of the relationship. There’s still a relationship, even though one person is passed on. That’s quite profound. It is. And so for everybody who has not read the book, The let’s give kind of the the timeline of the book. Sure, sure. There’s a college student who learns of this professor and he takes his Class, and that was kind of the relationship is teacher student. And he called them coach, coach,

 

Derek Egeberg  05:10

coach and player. So it was this relationship of a college professor and a student that developed and he was one of his great students and they bonded. And then 20 plus years later, this very successful, highly money motivated business person journal heard on on the TV to a couple that his former professor was dying of a disease and they were starting to interview him. And so he went back and made contact with his professor. And the Tuesdays with Morrie is spending every Tuesday with Morrie, basically, continuing their studies, with and as they say, without books, without a classroom without assignments without grades kind of thing. But it really is this continuation of life studies in a private environment with somebody who is guaranteed to pass away. And so kind of the premise of the book is, you know, you’re learning how death’s observation and some of the life skills from somebody going through that process. Now going back to the long list of things that you just mentioned. And, you know, again, detachment, so I read this book, my mom passed away really reminded me of a lot of things as you and I kind of develop the mastermind library. And you think, you know, not unlike what Morrie and Mitch just went through, I got to spend lots of time with my mom, because she was at home. And unfortunately, during the COVID era, you know, you really didn’t go to the hospital if it was not, not necessary. And so she and I spent lots of time at the house along with the rest of the family. And, you know, she declined and declined and declined, and, you know, she passed away peacefully on the couch. And, you know, you think, how many life lessons did she teach me, similarly, that what the coach taught his player there now, detachment, that’s been several years for me, since my mom passed away. I know, you just went through this with your mom. And for those that don’t know, Mary Lou Perry passed away. Less than a month ago. There was an amazing obituary in the paper this last week. So you and her dad clearly did a great job. But did this book help you at all with that? Did you even reflect on this book, knowing this was happening with your mom? Or was it two different avenues

 

Jon Perry  07:46

did and didn’t? There’s definitely aspects of the book that resonated because I finished the first time just before and then I just finished it again earlier this morning. And I think your brain processes information that is important to you at that moment in time, so there was aspects of it before. And then there’s aspects of it now that I’m glad to be reminded of, to think about things framed in a very specific way of how she is how she would want me to be. And I’m grateful for that.

 

Derek Egeberg  08:46

So I have to make an observation, you know, some of the books that we read, they’re good. And, and, you know, you might take a few nuggets, some are impactful, and some are, are just wisdom imparting in a way that you don’t really realize maybe you’re being educated the way you are. And this is one of those books that a teenager, an 18 year old teenager could read this book in probably a day or two. And it’s not a big deal. But it’s the wisdom that’s in there that helps you deal with life and helps you deal with death and, and gives you a different perspective in a way that we don’t really talk about death and dying much. And I don’t know why maybe it’s that naive.

 

Jon Perry  09:34

There’s a stigma to it, too. You know, I’m going to live forever until I’m not I’m going to take on the world until I can’t. So I think there’s a naivety I think there’s an arrogance to it. And if I don’t think about it, it can’t happen to me. I mean, how many times no matter anything tragic happens to us. If we don’t think about it. Surely it can’t happen to us

 

Derek Egeberg  09:57

said every person on the planet just everyone out accidente now, you know, we talk about reading the books, tangibly, you know, tactically, we talk about audiobooks. This is one of those books, I would tell everybody get both read it. But if you listen to the audiobook, it’s actually Mitch speaking. And then the updated 25th anniversary, they actually have Morrie speaking and talking about some things as well,

 

Jon Perry  10:26

from the tapes that Mitch was recording him during his interview session. Last 14 weeks, he was meeting with them.

 

Derek Egeberg  10:33

So again, knowing that this was all of the sessions are recorded. And this is kind of how Mitch gleaned his information for the book. But then, having never heard, you know, again, when I read this, you know, years and years ago, you assume what somebody sounds like you assume what they’re trying to say. But hearing the inflection points from the author, or, better yet hearing Morrie actually speak and say what he wants to say. I wish I could have heard my mom talk about the book, if she had been able to listen to the author’s speak, knowing it was her favorite book, I would have loved to have that adult to adult conversation. Not okay, Mom, I’ll read the book kind of a thing. But you talk about the relationship doesn’t end. That’s why we do burials and funerals and you go back to a grave site is your you’re continuing that relationship that direction, because you think you have to physically be there. But this also talks about that mental relationship in the learning that has been passed? Yes. And and I think that’s my big takeaway is, how many things can we learn from other people, that sometimes we wait until it’s too long, too late.

 

Jon Perry  11:59

But the same token, we got to be in a place where we’re actually truly and honestly, willing to learn, you know, he talks about more, he talks about that there was he’s 78, when he passes, I believe, and he talks about, you know, not wanting to get younger, again, he wants to be at that point, because he’s been at all those points. He’s been that three year old whose mother had to take care of, he’s been that 30 year old, who’s been out in the world. He’s been this 50 year old professor, he’s been an activist, he’s done a lot. And those accumulation of experiences has made him who he is, then he doesn’t want to go back to necessarily relive the good old days, he wants to take in that wisdom that he has gained. Yet he was only ready to take in that wisdom as he struggled through those points in his life. I bet you anything you give me this book two years ago, I would have said, Yeah, that’s a nice book. That’s a nice story. Different context, different situations of life, will allow information to hit you differently. And this just happened to hit me at a very unique point in my life. And I’m grateful for it. It also done shares, all these little aspects of life, you know, I can acknowledge that two years ago. Nice book. Good story, based on a true story. Sure. Fantastic. Now, it’s gotten me almost in tears.

 

Derek Egeberg  13:35

But I think that’s every one of us if we’re willing to take the blinders off just a little bit, and you hit the nail on the head when I read this book, you know, as a as a young adult. Okay. Nice book. Thanks, mom. And I’m sure I probably gave her attitude and an eye roll and a huff. You know, those things that I’m sure she’s laughing right now going? See, I told you. But at the same time, sometimes it’s not turning the filter, it’s it’s peeling the filters off and saying, okay, you know what, everybody has a story. Every person on this planet has a story if we’re willing to listen. And I’m sure every person on this planet has some wisdom, they can impart look, you can teach me and 100 other people some stuff, I hope I have that same skill, this skill of hey, let’s take this life lesson, and help people deal with learning in in illness and death. But it’s a beautiful story about a relationship and a friendship and a camaraderie to impart wisdom on other people. And you know, I don’t want anybody to think oh my gosh, this is a doom and gloom book. No, no, it really is a beautiful story about Wow, what a world it would be if everybody took just that little bit of extra care in their relationships. Now, you and I deal with it kind of in a A sadder way because we both relate our mom’s passing to this. And you can certainly use that as one of these books to to help you deal with that. Yes. But it’s really a book about, hey, we’re, we’re Tuesday, people, Jon, you and I have been Tuesday, people for a decade or more. And we just never connected the dots that how much have you grown? How much have I grown? But how much have you helped me grow? How much have I helped you grow? And you know what, maybe your staff has grown more, because you’ve grown, maybe my staff has grown more, because I’ve grown. And maybe both of us see that, just because of somebody else’s vision, called Mitch and Morrie.

 

Jon Perry  15:43

I think that’s a fair assessment. I think that over the last 10 years, I know I’ve grown as an individual. For a long time, I stated that I was very set and who I was. And that was a good thing. Because then you knew exactly where it was, I wasn’t changing from day to day, week to week, month to month and barely even I think year to year, you know, as my wife grew and took some things, you know, I was right there by her side, we didn’t grow apart, she grew and I was there to support her. You know, in the last couple years, I think I’ve changed quite a bit. And my wife has been a little bit more stable. It’s not that she’s not growing, she’s just not growing at the same rate she was. So she’s been more stable while I’ve been growing. And we’ve been going side by side and making that relationship stronger, by not actively growing and potentially growing in other ways. Part of the what they talked about in this book is marriage. And why do people divorce so much? You know, they lightly touch on that, you know, partly because mores and Charlotte’s marriage is long lasting. And Mitch and his wife, Denise marriage, as long as somebody took a while to get into that marriage with his wife, to figure out what it was partly because yeah, he was a high profile sports journalist, chasing the dollars, who live in the jet setting life of a sports journalist, I imagine in the 90s of a celebrity as a sort of a celebrity with his byline in the in the, in the paper, he said when he was laid off, you know, the world went on around him, and that was a reality check for him. I think that never being in a large market, we realize the world goes on without us. So how do we make our impact? Where do we celebrate our wins? What kind of life do we celebrate of ours and those around us? Do we care enough to ask our friends? How are you? And when they say just fine? Do we probe that extra question to make sure that are they having any really big challenges that we may be able to help them with, right? And it’s so easy to get stuck in that passive, polite role? You know, there’s a phrase that someone told me about is, East Coast people are helpful and rude. West Coast people are polite and useless. You get a flat tire on the side of the road on the East Coast, somebody will pull over and be like, what’s wrong, you? Jerk? You know what, you can’t change your tire? You didn’t your mother raising What kind of idiot. You know, they parade them all the same time. They’re getting out their car, Jack, they’re lifting up the car. They’re doing it, they’re changing out the tire and getting like, yeah, have a good day. On the west coast, people will walk by and be like, Oh, you got a tire? Ooh, sorry. You know, that’s unfortunate. You know, I feel bad for you. That’s really stings. Yeah. And then they just kind of pass on. It’s a generality. I mean, those are yet that’s kind of what I can envision some of what Morrie is. He’s the politeness with the hopefulness that isn’t existing too much. In our world. That seems like we fall under one or the both. That’s

 

Derek Egeberg  19:07

I don’t think you’re wrong. And I think we have been so programmed with society that we’re surface level people that, you know, went how are you? Fine, how are you? Great. Okay, good now that we got those unpleasantries out of the way now and go about our business. Instead of hey, let me let me be there with you. Let me go through the pain with you. Let me see if I can be of service. And it feels like lots of things are bothers and you know, seeing Mitch spend every Tuesday back with Morrie, his beloved coach and spending week after week after week with him. That took an enormous amount of energy and thought and time away from whatever else he was doing. And yet it was very impactful to Who? Two guys in Yuma, Arizona, of all places? And you think, Wait a minute. He didn’t start out with that. No, he ended with this. And how many things? Do we do that we should just start out being helpful and relational? And you know, what, if something comes out of it later, great, if you helped one person, that’s great as well. But sometimes we just get so busy trying to get through the day that we forget, somebody may need a lot more help get through the day than we do. You know, to your credit, the morning that Tuesday morning, after your mom passed away, Monday night, you came in. And for those that don’t know the story several weeks ago, that was really impactful that you came in, because you didn’t want to let down this because I think of a relational thing. And maybe you just needed a break as well. I don’t I don’t know. But that was impactful because the relationship was important. And how many things do we need to look at that intentional to say, wait a minute, I know I’m in pain, or I know I’m struggling or I know I have things to do or whatever it is. But I gotta go help that person. I’ve got to be Mitch going to help Morrie. And ironically, Morrie helps Mitch way more than Mitch helps Morrie  But you don’t know that until you go through it. So for me, you said it the intentionalness is not? How are you doing? Fine. How are you doing? Fine. It is. Now really, Jon, how’s it going? You know, how are you doing? How’s your dad doing and asking those real questions. And I go back my one wish, I wish I could have had an adult conversation with my mom about the book. Because I never really understood what what they were trying to say. Because not because they didn’t do a good job of it. I wasn’t in the right frame of reference in life. And so you think, what else would my mom, what would she have wanted to talk about? That’s my take. It’s a good take. Okay. So what? You know, for me, I really listened to Morrie one more time this morning. Just a charismatic, kind of I don’t want to say no caring kind of guy, but just didn’t care what people thought he just spoke his mind. In a he told Mitch, the truth, whether it was good, bad or indifferent. And I think that’s kind of the takeaways. Sometimes we just have to be that shoot straight to the heart honest as well.

 

Jon Perry  22:58

And I think that we need to accept and work with what life gave us not cope with it, work with it, find the joys within it. You know, he talked about, at the beginning, when he interview with Ted Koppel, it’s like, he is not looking forward to the day that he has to have someone wipe his butt. You know, at the end, he says, I’m enjoying it. I’m being treated like a baby, we all want that unconditional love and being taken care of, at some internal level, we all want to know that we are loved and taken care of. And he just put a spin on it to revel in that even in one of the most. Most people would feel degraded rated way he found a way to put a positive mental push that this is going to be okay. This is more than okay. This is living this is being loved. And I don’t know many people who do that.

 

Derek Egeberg  23:58

I don’t either. But that’s I think that’s everything in life. If you really look at the book, there’s so many life lessons that you can take out of it. So turn the prism what what could I find beneficial, educational, joyful, relational, out of whatever it is. You know, you get a flat tire like you were talking about the flat tire. Okay, how fascinating. I wonder what I can learn out of this. You know, maybe it’s check my tires more often. Maybe it’s check the tire pressure. Maybe it’s, Hey, don’t run over the big steel. Great right in front of me. I don’t know what it is. But do you? Do you treat everything as a life learning lesson? And do you maybe go back and reflect on it? And so, you know, for my take to Mitch the author, it’s kudos and thank you for spending those weeks and weeks and weeks, recording these things and then putting it in a useful fashion book. That’s an easy read, but a deep book if you actually do Want to take the blinders off and get into it.

 

Jon Perry  25:02

And I think realistically and that you’re going through the book, you don’t hear it. But in the, again, the 25th anniversary when they talk about things at the end, the real unsung hero of this book is the publisher that took a shot on it. They stepped up to the plate with Mitch proposing them this book about a man dying and bought it. And those bills are though, that money helped pay for the end of life care of Morrie, so that he could have less of that burden to worry about. Because I think anyone who ever goes away, they do never, ever want to be a burden. There’s a difference of being taken care of like he was talking about being a burden on somebody. And financially, I think, partly because of the society we live in, we do not ever want to actively be somebody else’s financial burden. And that’s a different thing. And so, publisher, the initial book, who advanced the money and got this ball rolling, I am so grateful for them for taking a chance because there wasn’t enough time for the 25 rejections of kick. Jack Canfield are the 50 rejections of JK Rowling, there wasn’t enough time, they took a shot, and a chance on a sports journalist writing a very in depth. I don’t wanna say psychological but something along that line book with his old coach.

 

Derek Egeberg  26:33

And for everybody who, when you read the book, understand that publisher is also the one when Mitch said, I don’t know how to put this into story just said, Hey, write it in a really conversational manner. Just, you know, it’s YouTube talking. It didn’t have to be a third party fictitious story that’s overblown. It’s just you to having a conversation. So those two things, I think the publisher taking the chance, and the words of wisdom of just making a conversation is is really what came to fruition. And so again, you go back to, that didn’t start out with the idea to write the book. No, Mitch just started out going to see his old coach, and wanting to spend time with somebody, end of life. And it’s turned into something that has has made a difference in my life,

 

Jon Perry  27:24

made a difference in mine. So now, where do you rate this book on your shelves?

 

Derek Egeberg  27:31

This is on my top 13 it so for those that have have kind of come on this journey with a Master Mind Library with us. We have a rating of your top 13 books, your second 13 books, your third 13 books, and then those top 13 Second 26 Oh, okay, sorry, math is wrong. But top 13 books, and this is one of those life changing impactful books. And you know, me, I’m a type A high D personality, I like bullet points, I like structure, order discipline, let’s go. And this is turning the prism, take the filters off. This is one of those those life books that reminds me, wait a minute, there’s a relationship behind everything. And if I am willing to invest in the relationship, I can learn way more out of a lot of people’s life skills than assuming I know everything and my, my high D type A personality. And so top 13 probably for the rest of my life there. And I know we say, well, you know, maybe something will knock a book off and move it down to the second shelf. But it’s been introduced to me a long time ago, I now really understand what the book was what mom was trying to tell me. So top 13 for me for sure. How about for you.

 

Jon Perry  28:51

For me, it’s a second shelf. And this is why, like I mentioned earlier, two years ago, would not have had the same amount of impact. I’m reserving my top 13 For not just those books that had a major impact on me, but for something that I can give away to something else and will have a near immediate impact on them. And this is the book that I really, truly believe you need to be at a certain point in your life in order to be ready to receive the wisdom that can impart on you.

 

Derek Egeberg  29:18

Now, I’m going to challenge you on because when you say giveaway, and Jon, I know for everybody listening you and I do a lot of book giveaways and that’s kind of our way to give back as well. About a copy for everybody on my staff and ask them didn’t make them I asked them to read it. And all of them said that was a phenomenal book and thank you for giving it to them. So I I don’t know that people need to be in the right place. I think they need the right person giving it to them. And they need to be probably older than a teenager kind of a thing. But impactful as well.

 

Jon Perry  29:56

I would argue the level of impact is going to be different for 20 Your old than a 30 year old than a 40 year old that may be a 50 year old and a 60 year old and a 70 year old. And and I’m not saying that there wasn’t a 20 year old who, given this book, under the right circumstances or wrong circumstances, however they may be maybe the most impactful thing in their life, there’s equally a good chance of giving it to a 40 year old me four years ago, be like, Oh, this is a really neat book, and not really take to heart, some of what it is because they can’t relate. You know, part of what makes a good hero’s journey, a great story is being able to put yourself in the role of the character. Real fictitious, that’s what really grabs you, if you can put yourself and be like, Wow, if I was there, if I was feeling this, you can feel those emotions you can you can relate to it, you can emote with it. If you can’t be there, and it’s just like watching a TV show from a third person perspective, you’re missing something. So I’m not saying this can’t make an impact on people. It’s why I still have it on my second shelf. It’s just I want them to have an immediate, major impact only 13 books. Yeah. And, and so I would still give this book away to people. I give this book away every day, if I could, and I have the resources. It’s a really great book. Just top 13 those, it’s just like we talked about with another book that we’ll talk about eventually. i It’s not my favorite book. And that author is not the one that had the most impact on me. Yet. This one sets up the domino effect to get to this one.

 

Derek Egeberg  31:33

So is that one that we’ll talk about later on your top? 13?

 

Jon Perry  31:36

It is because of that. domino effect.

 

Derek Egeberg  31:40

So for everybody who again, wants to see your top 13 My top 13 If you go on mmm library.com. Yes, you’ll see our shelves. Yes. And so my rankings, your rankings. And here’s what the Beauty for me is. Neither is right or wrong. It’s this is what’s impactful for me. And had you asked me three years ago before my mom passed, would this have been my top 13? Probably not. But now it’s reminded me of certain things. So things are going to ebb and flow up and down on on our shelves as well. But what I love about the Master Mind Library is, it’s an ever continuing journey for education and growth and a discussion. And sometimes you like it, and I hate it. Sometimes I like it, and you hate it. And sometimes we both love it. And sometimes we both. Don’t do that one again. But it’s this journey of growth and education that I think for me that the library always had that feeling of, okay, there’s something special here in this library, I got to go in and get a book. I didn’t have to go, I got to go get a book. And so for me, having my shelves, I get to have my shelves and I get to pay attention to this. And I get to be on this journey with a Tuesday person like yourself. So I’m excited to see what the library turns into over the next 10 years knowing we’ve been Tuesday people for the last 10 years.

 

Jon Perry  33:12

Absolutely. And

 

Derek Egeberg  33:18

okay, so, as far as I’m concerned, top 13 Great book. I would certainly suggest everybody go get a hard copy of it and read it. But get the audiobook very impactful listening to the author speaking with his voice and his inflections his emotions. most impactful is actually listening to Morrie speak in the end. So from, Derek Egeberg. The Approval Coach, I love this book,

 

Jon Perry  33:49

Jon Perry, the Reach Architect. I absolutely adore this book as well.

 

Derek Egeberg  33:52

So from all of us, this is the Master Mind Library. We’ll see you next week.