The Travler’s Gift

Jon Perry  00:09

Good morning, and this morning we’re going to talk about what happens when you mix Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol with Og Mandino’s The Greatest Salesman in the World. The book. I’m Jon Perry, the Reach Architect together with Derek Egeberg, The Approval Coach and the book on the Master Mind Library. This week we’re going to discuss is Andy Andrews the Travelers Gift.

 

Derek Egeberg  00:31

Good intro. Okay, so Christmas Carol and Og Mandino ha,

 

Jon Perry  00:35

Yes. Yes. David Ponder you’re going to be visited by eight ethereal entities this night. Seven, seven, say so many ethereal, no, eight himself?

 

Derek Egeberg  00:45

Well, that’s, that is true if if you consider him passing through to Okay, I’ll give you that. Alright, so let’s talk about the Master Mind Library. And what this is the we have our top shelf, top 13 books,

 

Jon Perry  00:59

We have a baker’s dozen top 13 books that we believe could that it has enhanced our lives greatly by taking the knowledge from them and actually applying them. And I think that’s part of the key stuff is we’re trying to apply what we’re learning, and not just sitting and thinking and pondering. and

 

Derek Egeberg  01:15

Ponder. Wow, that was funny. Thank you. Thank you been working on that for a week.

 

Jon Perry  01:20

I have. And we believe that we if we can share these books with people, then they will also benefit and we don’t just have a top shelf. We have a second shelf with 26 books and a third shelf with 52 books, and a fourth shelf and a fifth shelf. And then we even have a sixth shelf with books we read that we probably wouldn’t recommend it. It was really dusty. Yeah, the one and done’s. Okay, yeah, it’s still an experience. And we can learn from those experiences. And so this is our opportunity to share with people what we’ve gathered, and hold each other accountable for progressing in our own goals in life and ambitions, and hopefully seeing if somebody else wants to join the journey that we’re currently on.

 

Derek Egeberg  02:06

Okay, so that’s kind of a summary of the Master Mind Library, and why we’re doing this. This, I want to ask you first, how does this book rank on your shelf?

 

Jon Perry  02:18

This is a second shelf book. It is a very good book. There’s a lot of takeaway from it. Andy Andrews, I really really enjoy his books. I’ve read almost a dozen of them at this point. I find his story writing style to be right up my alley. It’s mostly in parables. I love parables. Some of them are almost a modern day fairy tale, which again, I really enjoy. And although this isn’t my favorite of his books, if I was to hand a person a book to get into Andy Andrews, this would be the book. This sets up a domino effect of other things. I’ve heard, I’ve heard him saying his own podcast, he’d rather somebody read somebody else’s book, because then it before this one, because he can see the foundation, I would argue the opposite. I think if you read this book, and then read the other book that he mentioned, it would bring things so much more into clarity of, oh, this is how we arrived at it. This is how things were set up. This is why it’s like that this is how this historical background came to be. Because it’s not just because it’s his first book. It is his first book. It took five years to get put out there from the moment from beginning writing to actually getting published.

 

Derek Egeberg  03:38

And for quite some time as it was a New York Times best seller book.

 

Jon Perry  03:41

Yes. Well, after it got after eventually got out got it’s one of those it’s one of those overnight successes that happened, you know, over the course of five years.

 

Derek Egeberg  03:49

Okay, so it’s on your second shelf, and you’ve given us some of the whys. Now for me, it’s on my top 13. So it’s a top tier book. Yes. And similarly, your why’s are filtered through your your lens, if you will, my perspective. So your perspective, my top 13, if I could put one at the pinnacle. This is it. And and partly for me is because you talk about the parable and the decision making so we’ll get into the book. But none of the other books that we read matter if we’re not in personal control, in my opinion. So for me, looking at this as it’s all about your mental state, it’s your personal decision making, it’s your willingness to continue. That has for me, the reason it’s on the top 13 And actually could be at the precipice of that if there was a number one is because without that personal responsibility, which is one of the things that he’s going to talk about, nothing else matters in in my library, if you will, so can’t say in my book because none of them are our books. So I think Andy Andrews did it exactly right. And let’s talk about from an author’s perspective, if you understand his journey, it sounds a lot like David Ponders journey, the the main character here, you know, down and out and having some real life struggles. And one of the things that I’ve heard Andy Andrews say over the years is if life is just a lottery ticket, and it’s just a crapshoot, if you’re going to win or not, then maybe I should punch out. And that was his mindset for a long time. And so you can see a lot of those traits with for everybody’s benefit. Again, David Ponder the hero of our journey, if you will, has some life events and is downtrodden and thinks that one of the ways he can protect his family is maybe check out. And you know, I sympathize with people who have to make those decisions and struggle with the dark side. And I know you’ve talked about struggling with the dark side of the mental states sometimes. And so I also see this book more from a humanistic perspective, because I see people I know in that character with decision makings, and then you realize, okay, now it opens up to almost like a Christmas Carol, that there’s a journey. And there’s a story, and you can see some of the connections. But it really is a, a journey of seven characteristics that we all should embody. If we want to grow as human beings and become leaders of our groups, our families, our tribes are, whoever it is our communities. So very much enjoy Andy Andrews writing style in this. Yeah. So let’s talk about the character development. You see a lot of books that it’s tactical, and I’m a, I’m a high D type A, I love checklists, I love tactical, I love bullet points. And I think that’s one of the reasons this one resonates so well is all these bullet points really don’t matter unless you have the character and the stamina to stand behind them. And so when you say the first decision, so David Ponder goes and meets which historical figure first,

 

Jon Perry  07:11

He meets Truman first, right before he walks into his meeting with Churchill and Stalin, to basically make the world changing decision to drop the bomb.

 

Derek Egeberg  07:27

So for everybody who has not read the book again, so we have a life lesson teaching book that goes through a parable, teaching moment, all with some fantasy of meeting a historical character, soon to be seven historical characters that help teach him things. In a non threatening, non, you must do this way. And it’s always David’s choice, it’s always the main characters choice.

 

Jon Perry  07:52

And that’s part of it is just actually having the autonomy to realize it’s making his own choices. He’s not coming along for a ride. He’s an active participant in his own life, and the realization of he is an active participant in his own life.

 

Derek Egeberg  08:09

So when when David has meeting Harry Truman, and you’re at the the meeting, the secret meeting, where they were deciding whether they should drop the bomb or not to end the war, and the way he writes Harry Truman is, he doesn’t want to be there. Harry Truman doesn’t want to make the decision. But it is his ultimate authority to save X number of lives based on this decision. And what he teaches David, is, the buck stops here, you can’t pass the buck. And so at some point, everybody has to take control of their own situation. And I love the thought of, you can’t say it’s not my fault. everything is your fault. It may have been a decision 10 years before, but it is your fault, because your situation led you to where you got. And even if you said, Well, you know, somebody won the lottery, they did make the decision to go buy the ticket, they did make the decision to go drive there. And I’m not saying go risk money on lottery. But if you made the decision not to go buy a lottery ticket, you’re probably not going to win. So the buck does stop there,

 

Jon Perry  09:18

I think at a more optimal moment for what we’re talking about. It’s your decision to pick up a book and read. It’s your decision to hone a skill. It’s your decision to join a civic organization and do something good for the community. It is your decision to invest time and energy into your career. It is your decision to invest time and energy into your family. People wonder why their kids don’t love them why they’re estranged from friends. When’s the last time you picked up a phone and called them? When’s the last time you went to their soccer game? When’s the last time that you complimented them on doing something? Well, instead of criticizing them for doing something that wasn’t the way that maybe you would have done it.

 

Derek Egeberg  10:01

So the buck stops here. Great, great decision as far as I’m concerned. And so here’s how the story envelops is you have David who has some life challenges thinks about checking out. And it’s it’s very much the Christmas story. It’s very much a wonderful life story. And so very a wonderful life story when you think, Okay, I’m gonna check out and then you get to see what life would be like without you. But he’s learning these decisions along the way. So he finishes with Truman, as the buck stops here, and then he’s transported somewhere else

 

Jon Perry  10:39

back in time, to the Council of Solomon, King Solomon.

 

Derek Egeberg  10:43

Okay, and so King Solomon, two things that that we picked up from there is, number one, seek wisdom, which is the main thing that he’s talking about. But I love the servant leadership, and talking about how, you know, he was there to hold the door, he was there to do things for his, his community, if you will, because as the book puts it, is when you start acting like a leader, somebody else becomes the leader. When you’re acting like a servant, you can still be the leader. And again, just that seeking wisdom, Jon, why do you read so many books now, out of the Master Mind Library? How many books have you digested over the last, let’s say two years?

 

Jon Perry  11:26

Over 500. Easily. Maybe 550.

 

Derek Egeberg  11:28

Okay, that is uniquely different than the Jon Perry of 10 years ago. Absolutely. What has made Jon Perry seek wisdom.

 

Jon Perry  11:38

I was tired of being stuck in circumstance situations, certain certain situations that I acknowledged I put myself in either my business was progressing wasn’t progressing as much as it could have been. My mental health wasn’t progressing as much as I was hoping it would be. My I was relying upon others, instead of working through issues myself, I was probably passing more blame than I should have. It was more of a reflection inward on what I could change. And realistically, especially in this world, you could only affect you, and the situations immediately around you. You can participate in larger vehicles just had an election, you can go out and vote. At the end of the day, is my one vote gonna make a huge difference in the outcome? Probably not. But I participated in the system. Today, though, if I choose to eat versus not eat, is that going to affect my personal outcome? Yeah, absolutely. I can choose what’s going on with me and around me. And eventually, hopefully, my influence of what I believe is right and true, will spread and create a ripple effect, like throwing a rock in a pond and have long lasting iterations.

 

Derek Egeberg  13:05

If you believe that, then go back to your one vote your one thing, it really does make a difference, because everything and that’s one of Andy’s things for later, is everything you do matters now and forever, and has those rippling effects. It, it may affect your kids, it may affect your grandkids, it could affect all of your staff, which may be the one person you affect affects somebody 10 steps removed. And that changes things hugely. So the seeking wisdom again, what’s what’s interesting on the journey, and that’s one of the reasons this is book number one of one, if you will, but on the top 13 is, it’s that, okay, the Master Mind Library was the brainchild of you and I to seek wisdom. It was to really selfishly build ourselves first, and then maybe make a difference for other people as as they come along. And I know you’ve had other people read books, I know you give out a lot of books. So I give out a lot of books. And I’m encouraging lots of other people to read. And so that seeking wisdom is I need to seek more wisdom to help other people gain wisdom, and you can’t force it. And just like what King Solomon was showing, is, it really is a servant way to make it happen. You can’t force somebody seek the wisdom, but you can encourage them to continue the journey. And if they find it quick, great. And if it takes a lifetime to find that journey, great as well.

 

Jon Perry  14:35

Isn’t Ziglar who said that? You can get whatever you want as long as you can help everyone.

 

Derek Egeberg  14:42

You can have anything in life that you want as long as you help enough people get what they want. So servant leadership Yeah, that’s fine. It’s very much okay. So he finishes with King Solomon and for everybody again, the the precipice with this is, you read the decision. So at the end of these two Truman, King Solomon, he has given a scroll, he’s given a parchment, something, rather than that written that embodies this message. And it’s a long, well crafted message in most of these

 

Jon Perry  15:12

Reiterated one point over and over again, again, kinda like in the greatest salesman by Og Mandino, he’s points of affirmations, almost, if you will. And I’m wondering what compare on that to the which one came first? No, no, I’m now thinking about putting this in a different perspective. Kind of like in Og Mandino, you know, they say to do each one for 30 days. And now I’m wondering if I did each one of these on a different social media platform each day. So like, take the first one. I will do a video to Facebook today, I will handwrite it and post it to Instagram tomorrow. Exactly. How would that affect my mood at the end of?

 

Derek Egeberg  15:57

Well, he does it and one of the things that he talks about in the book, which we should get to later, but we’ll do it now is he talks about taking each one of the decisions and reading it morning and evening for 21 days. And so you think my goodness, 21 days with seven decisions, that’s a lot. And and at the same time you go, it really isn’t in the course of your lifetime. You’ve been around for how many days? You know, not just years, but how many days, okay, it’s not that much. But if it’s literally, I will seek wisdom. That’s not that hard to read. But boy is that hard to remember when you’re frustrated with your kid or you’re frustrated at work or you’re frustrated, because what’s on the news in the TV, you’re frustrated because somebody cut you off. But you know what all those people may be having a really bad day, maybe the person who cut you off was speeding to the hospital to be with a loved one who’s passing. You don’t know, maybe seeking that wisdom and understanding is is something to do. So he finishes King Solomon, he reads the scroll to King Solomon. And that’s the trigger point that pushes you to the next person, if you will. So next up is

 

Jon Perry  17:11

Joshua Chamberlain, at the Battle of Gettysburg, right before the fifth wave of attacks from the Virginia army.

 

Derek Egeberg  17:22

So it’s interesting. Did you know who Joshua Chamberlain was prior to this book,

 

Jon Perry  17:27

I absolutely had no clue who Joshua Chamberlain is. And I will bet you did not either

 

Derek Egeberg  17:32

Not a single clue. And so one of the things that I really enjoy about this book is the historical figures. They’re not made up figures. These are people who existed in history. And so when you do a little bit of research on Joshua Chamberlain, he really is the guy that when Andy Andrews puts out there won the war for the Union army. Literally he is and none of us have ever read that in a history book. Never in my entire course of whether it’s grade school, middle school, high school, college, after college. Nowhere have I ever heard the name Joshua Chamberlain. But when you see, okay, here’s the decision maker that is helping, not the decision maker. It’s the character who’s helping David Ponder, realize a decision. But this guy literally was the one who accepted the surrender of the Southern army. This guy was went on to be in politics and went on to be after politics went on to be a college dean, if you will, the president of a college. You think I’ve never heard of this guy. And yet here Andy Andrews, effortlessly it appears, weaves this guy in to a story and helped to ding dongs who live in Yuma Arizona, to understand here’s this historical figure maybe we should have known more about because of his decision. So his decision is what

 

Jon Perry  19:04

His decision was when he was a masked with the truth that there he’s being out number, probably several people. One, they cannot extend their line anymore. They are down to less than two rounds of ammo, per man. His options were pretty much surrender, run. Or charge, and he opted to not flee, to not surrender his post because that was not his job. He was assigned a task to to hold. So he yelled out, bayonets, put them on and charged and the Virginia army was so in shock. They assumed that reinforcements were there and they must have now be overwhelmed and before They didn’t want to lose any more lives either. So they just gave up and they rounded up prisoners over three times the amount of soldiers that they had left. And that was truly the most pivotal moment of the Civil War. If it wasn’t for that moment, the United States would not probably be as it is today, it might be two countries, it might be three countries. And

 

Derek Egeberg  20:26

but for the decision, so his decision is take action

 

Jon Perry  20:30

Take Action to to do something, and not just sit and wait or make a decision. There was Colin Powell has a thing that he talks about his 40 I think 40/70 rule, he will never make a decision with less than 40% of the information because then you’re just guessing he will never make it, he will always make a decision with less than 70% of the information because then if you’re more than somebody, you probably made a decision already. You’re just stalling for confirmation, some. So a good leader, you’re never going to have the full picture you got to do that’s what you can. And that’s what you can’t if it’s between 40 to 70% of the information available, you haven’t take action to take action.

 

Derek Egeberg  21:16

So here Joshua Chamberlain, outnumbered, staring down death for he and his men, but has a task where he is the extreme edge of one of their flanks, and cannot let the Southern army outflank them, because then if if the troops got in behind them all is lost the previous three battles that were mentioned, the South had taken them handily, and was literally winning the war. So that one man’s action changed the entire Civil War.

 

Jon Perry  21:50

Yeah, all of his direct commanders perished on the field, he was not the colonel in charge. When this battle began. He is the colonel that was found out he was in charge moments before this fifth round of attack. And that was his decision to make.

 

Derek Egeberg  22:09

So here’s, here’s for me, the interesting thing, again, doing a little bit of research on the the character, I’ve had the pleasure of going to some of the military academies. Not because I went as a student, but just touring them. Let’s be fair. This was a school teacher, from Maine. From Maine, this is not a guy who sought out the leadership position. He he was there to fight and was thrust into a leadership position and like you say the decision is take action. Just do what you know you need to do and just get it done. And it seems like such a simple concept. But Jon, how many times in your business? Have you not taken the action that you needed to how many times in my business have I not taken the action that I needed to that we were waiting for more information, hoping something would be different? You know, assuming that maybe it would change later now there’s there’s things whether it’s buying equipment, retiring equipment, hiring people, letting people go, all of those action things. Sometimes we just sit back and wait. So love those three decisions. Okay, so he he is then handed this tobacco pouch and scroll and reads this and then is thrust where,

 

Jon Perry  23:29

is it into them? So then he thrust into a small crawlspace.

 

Derek Egeberg  23:36

He doesn’t know it’s a crawl space. It’s just a dark, small, cramped space

 

Jon Perry  23:40

in Denmark, and where he meets a very perky,

 

Derek Egeberg  23:48

perky, precocious little girl.

 

Jon Perry  23:50

Anne Frank.

 

Derek Egeberg  23:52

And so here is again, we have all heard of Anne Frank, we’ve all read the Diary of Anne Frank, I think had read it twice in in school. And not a great outcome for her and in the situation. And we all know the book, which makes us know her. But her decision that she teaches him while she’s living in for a year and a half, in a room, in a warehouse behind a fake wall, fearing for their life, not having enough to eat, never been outside in the direct sunlight. Her her decision to teach David ponder is what

 

Jon Perry  24:38

to be happy to choose happiness, to not complain, because there’s no point in complaining. Every day she can have a positive outcome and be grateful for what she has. Or she could choose to wallow in pity and she chooses to be grateful that she’s alive. She’s with her family, that someone is bringing them food that someone brought him some clothes, that she can look out a window against her father’s wishes, and corner the corner and see what is going on. But she can dream that she can envision a life for herself in the future in what she wants.

 

Derek Egeberg  25:15

And so here’s for me, I blurred the lines, because I’m not really sure how much of these small details are historically accurate. And how much is author embellishment. Yes. And it makes no difference to me, because I know the foundation of most of these stories. And so it’s completely perfectly logical that there would be pictures that she has drawn on the wall of the life and the family and the husband and the kids that she wants. It’s completely logical that she would have had that conversation of just peering out the very bottom left corner of the window against her father’s wishes, so she could see the skyline and things like that. And so that decision, though, look, the taking action from Joshua Chamberlain, he clearly took action. With with the dropping of the bomb, and the buck stops here. He clearly did that. King Solomon clearly was seeking wisdom based on the things that we read. We think we know that she was always happy because of her diary. But there were some dark things in the diary. But it is completely logical for me to see Anne Frank, talking to David ponder talking about being happy and energetic and, you know, weaving in David Ponders sick daughter, not unlike go back to, you know, the Christmas Carol. You know, there’s Tiny Tim, there’s a sick kid. And so, you know, and Frank talks to David about his daughter, and he says he has a daughter just like her. And those are the two most beautiful kids in the world. I know you think Penelope might be right in there with those two. But here’s this little girl, teaching him what happiness is in one of the darkest places that you and I could ever imagine. You and i are going to drive home. And there’s food on the table. And we’re going to see our kids and when go outside in the sunlight. And if you want to go to Dairy Queen, you can go grab an ice cream and it’s totally okay. And yet this little girl who’s living in a cubby is teaching David ponder about I choose to be happy. Yes. So again, fourth decision. Love it. He gets a page actually four pages from her diary. So instead of writing it on a scroll, and this becomes important later. So he then takes the four pages of her diary and reads it. And then as whooshed away in this time travel,

 

Jon Perry  27:45

actually he was staring at one of her photos looking at a rose and then all of a sudden that rose became stars. And he touched it and it was real. And he sees it as a vase and all of a sudden he is transported to a tent. Which happens to be at Gettysburg again.

 

Derek Egeberg  28:05

So now he is back to a canvas tent. Gettysburg. He doesn’t know it. But he sees a tall thin, man. Yes. And top hat. And so when you think Gettysburg stove top hat, very tall, thin man, it

 

Jon Perry  28:23

has to be Abraham Lincoln 16th president. Okay, so

 

Derek Egeberg  28:26

now we’re, we’re at a different time of war. Yes. We’ve met Joshua Chamberlain. And President Lincoln then teaches David ponder what he teaches him. I don’t want to get this confused. Will don’t get them confused. And actually, but I’m going to stop you for just a quick second because he didn’t technically go there first. So he actually went to a ship

 

Jon Perry  28:57

No. After and Frank it? Well, we’re gonna have we’re gonna have to look. The ship may have came before Anne Frank, and then so.

 

Derek Egeberg  29:06

Okay, so President Lincoln is there to address a crowd. And again, weaving through all of these decisions. You’ve read a lot of historical data. And one of them is, you know, President Lincoln took time to write his speech, which was not a long speech, the Gettysburg Address, which everybody knows. fourscore and seven years ago, assumed he and he, you know, wrote it on the train on the way in now, when David ponder is talking to the president, and they’re going through this decision making which I’m still going to wait for you to come to. But he said, you know, at the end of it, and I want to get this because this is this is why I like the book is it’s weaving the historical details in he goes Mr. President, do you have something in writing for me? And he pulls it out and and says, you know, here it is. When did you have the time to write this? You know, you were writing your speech on the train in like, No, I was reading this on the training. Yeah. And he says, No, I wrote that back in Washington. I was writing this for you on the way in, and you think, holy cow that if this book was all true, could actually have happened, that you can see President Lincoln with his hat on the table, writing this for David Ponder. And again, you go back to these decisions that what, what David is needing is a lot of perspective on life. And sometimes, we get so closed up that we can’t see the light through the Anne Frank window. And so President Lincoln teaches him what

 

Jon Perry  30:51

I’m gonna do now, like on the words,

 

Derek Egeberg  30:54

you’re gonna, you’re gonna stop, and I’m gonna say, here’s how much so here’s how much I liked the book is Andy Andrews actually has some additional materials. And so I figured, instead of waiting, you know, some of these things that you can actually go buy from Andy Andrews store, I went and bought, and because he summarizes some of these things. And so the decision is what

 

Jon Perry  31:22

I will greet this day with a forgiving spirit.

 

Derek Egeberg  31:25

And and see, I was right, see, number four came first. But so I will greet this day with forgiving. His point to David Ponder was what? And I do appreciate you not wanting to get it wrong, how to say it. And so part of it is some of the things that we read, we read through our own filter that you may read and go, that’s not really what he was meaning no, no, I

 

Jon Perry  31:52

think it’s I mean, it’s all perspective, like you said, and I mean, we hold on to so much we carry the burdens of the world on our shoulder, everybody does, we are our own worst critics. We are slighted millions of times a day.

 

Derek Egeberg  32:11

And why do we hold on to that holy buckets?

 

Jon Perry  32:13

And how much energy does it take to hold on to all of that. So it makes sense to want to forgive those and people don’t have to ask for forgiveness to be forgiven, the guy who cut you off earlier, who might be on his way to a relative sick in the hospital, you can forgive him and he doesn’t even know he did anything wrong. And that’s okay. You don’t have to hold on to the negativity. And most importantly, and I know that I’m a very harsh critic of myself, just gotta sometimes remind yourself to forgive yourself, because you are not perfect.

 

Derek Egeberg  32:47

Those Those are the two key takeaways for me as number one. People don’t have to ask for forgiveness, you can just give it give it and it’s that gift. You know, watching the news media, it is so obvious that we expect people not only to say, I’m sorry, but then we say, Jon Perry, would you please forgive me? Okay, now that guy is deserving of forgiveness, because he asked for it. And he apologized. No, no, that’s not what any of the books or teachers have ever told us. Nobody has to say, I’m sorry, please forgive me. And then somebody pulls out the magic wand and says, Okay, I magically forgive you. It’s, I will greet this day with a forgiving spirit. And how many people have we begrudgingly held on to forgiveness, whether it’s friends or co workers, or a random stranger, or our parents or our grandparents or clients, all of that, and then beyond the forgiving others. Like you said, we need to just forgive ourselves once in a while, or all the time. Look, I I try to do my very best. And when my best isn’t good enough, I generally don’t forgive myself because I’m pissed that I didn’t get something done. Or I’m mad that I didn’t get something done on time.

 

Jon Perry  34:13

Sometimes we punish ourselves accordingly. And by punishing ourselves, we also may be inadvertently punishing those around us. And nobody has a clue why.

 

Derek Egeberg  34:21

And sometimes the things that we don’t see, so again, forgiving ourselves, have you ever known anybody to commit retail therapy, where they go shopping?

 

Jon Perry  34:32

There’s quite a people we know who commit the retail there, okay.

 

Derek Egeberg  34:34

And so, you know, they’re, they’re not forgiving of something. So they have to go buy things to make themselves feel better. Or how about food therapy, you know, I’m so depressed or I’m not forgiving myself, I need to go eat more. And that satisfies me in a different way. And I’m not saying either of those are wrong, but there’s people that you know, maybe don’t need the extra shopping or food, but they don’t see a way out. That’s the only way they can make themselves feel good because they haven’t forgiven themselves for something else. So really enjoyed that takeaway. And again, the historical perspectives of seeing the bodyguard come in and the process and hearing the sounds and being described the smells of the area. Andy Andrews really does a great job putting the fictitious book in place. So you can mentally see the whole thing.

 

Jon Perry  35:26

And keep in mind when he wrote this book, the internet isn’t like it is now this is over 20 something years old. So he actually got a lot of this from books, checking out from the library, picking them up, weirdly enough, had to do a lot of research. Yeah. And not as easy as typing into, you know, Google or some other similar, or Ask Jeeves or AltaVista,

 

Derek Egeberg  35:48

because they weren’t there when you’re going in the Wayback Machine.  Now those books were way back then that yeah, so let’s let’s go back because I want to make sure and they there is an order but they don’t have to be an ordered and that’s that’s the beauty with the seven decisions. So he is then transported. And he winds up on a boat

 

Jon Perry  36:08

a boat in the middle of the ocean. No idea who,

 

Derek Egeberg  36:11

what, when, where, why. And for everybody’s benefit. One of the fictitious things in the book is he is able to speak the languages of the table and understand so when he goes in, in meets King Solomon, clearly King Solomon was not speaking English. Okay. So as you go down this road, the person in the boat last it pronounces it Kalam. Okay and didn’t know who that was for the first few minutes. And then he finds out it is whom

 

Jon Perry  36:42

Christopher Columbus,

 

Derek Egeberg  36:44

okay. And so the decision that Christopher Columbus, there the middle of the ocean. And he’s he’s seeing a polite mutiny. It’s not really a, you know, a dry or swords and mutiny. But his crew is frustrated, and wants to go home. They want to go home. they’re done. And in the story you hear Christopher Columbus talking about every day, we’re going to see land, we’re going to see land, I can see it, we’re going to see land. And the crew finally says, I’ve had enough, I’m done. And what what happens,

 

Jon Perry  37:20

he said, we have only about 10 days worth of rations, we are 64 days out to sea. If we turn around and go back, now, there is zero chance that we’re going to do it. If we go forward, before these rations run out, we will see land.

 

Derek Egeberg  37:38

And so with that decision, he calls it, I will have a decided heart. And you can see, and I’ve seen various iterations of this from from Andy Andrews over time, but the decided heart is I have a path. I’m committed to it. I believe in my journey so much that I’m going to bring you all along with me. Even if you can’t see the destination, I can see the destination. And again, one of the reasons I love the book is that’s not unlike the journey that I believe we’re on here with our business you’re on with your business. But there’s people that don’t see what Imaginary Friends and Print Zoom is what this journey is. And I can see what the Reach Architect is behind it and what your real journey your real passion is. Yes. And I know that there’s people that don’t understand what the home loan perspective is. But I want people to learn how to play Monopoly with real properties and how everybody can become financially independent, if you will. But it’s that my decided heart doesn’t have to be your decided heart. My path is set and so is yours. And that decision of I will have a decided heart, which then leads into the I will have a forgiving spirit and things like that. Again, amazing all the way down. And that’s just six. That’s six. Okay, so now now we’re gone through six real historical characters. Now, he is then transported to a seventh which is whom

 

Jon Perry  39:12

the Archangel Archangel, Gabriel.

 

Derek Egeberg  39:15

So for those that believe, real historical character, for those that don’t believe in have not embraced that. It may not be a historical character, but he still weaves this in in exactly the same story and fashion. And so he then meets the Archangel Gabriel, and they have a discussion of what

 

Jon Perry  39:39

possibility things that have not happened things that have not happened because people give up a little too soon. People he’s, you know, as fantastical as the idea of arc in Angel arc angle. That’s a tongue twister for me. Archangel Gabriel is whether again, faith or not, it is of a magnitude, this place that he got whisked to is equally of a fantastical magnitude, it is everything that was going to be but somebody stopped short. Everything from a cure to certain types of cancers, to certain types of bicycles and medical devices, to pictures of people that would have been had you just gone a little bit further with it.

 

Derek Egeberg  40:27

So for everybody who’s listening again, he winds up in what I would call a giant warehouse with tons and tons of rooms. I mean, you can’t, I can’t conceive of how big it would have to be. But literally floor to ceiling, top to bottom all the way through things that could have come to fruition. had people just continued without exception. And that is the decision that he is trying to, to give David ponderous. Just continue, go, don’t stop. And I’ve heard people over and over in lifetime, say it. And I think one of them is Les Brown that goes and visits the like a cemetery. And he hears the ghosts of things that have not come to pass, saying we came to you with a vision, and you let us die before becoming real. And similar story is he sees a picture of two kids that as he realizes they would have been his two kids. But he chose not to do things early enough in life. And you know, that kind of hits home? Because how many decisions have you made? That you stopped short that you didn’t chase all the way through? How many have I stopped short? You know, even this Master Mind Library could we have done this years ago? Possibly, possibly, but what would it what would it look like? You don’t know? Because you didn’t ever chose that path?

 

Jon Perry  41:57

You chose another path at that time.

 

Derek Egeberg  42:01

So continuing without exception, is whether you believe there’s an archangel or not. Okay, this, this is a great decision because of how how visionary it would look to have somebody presenting that. And again, you go back to the It’s A Wonderful Life. Yes. You know, he gets to see what life would be like without him and how things would have changed. This is the opposite. What could have been if you just persisted much more, not the negative if you weren’t there

 

Jon Perry  42:35

Finding away when there is no other way.

 

Derek Egeberg  42:37

So he gets to go see these seven people, and they all hand him a scroll. And he tucks it neatly back in his tobacco pouch. And then he’s transported to someplace that looks a lot like home. But it’s not home, because there’s a huge building in the distance

 

Jon Perry  42:56

fancy cars that look a little bit nicer. And then he recalls them being at his time.

 

Derek Egeberg  43:02

It’s so and there’s a building in the skyline that he doesn’t recall being there. So he ends up going to an event and goes through a building and there’s a huge gathering. Yes. And he sees an old janitor, and the janitors kind of freaked out. And by the way, for everybody’s benefit, only the person who is there to visit can see him, yes. Okay, so he’s learned that through this whole thing, and so he sees this janitor, and they have an exchange and the janitors kind of freaked out and thinks that he’s wearing a costume and doesn’t know why he looks different, but he knows who he is. And he goes in and really this janitor, let him into a building that let him in to see what his future could be like, if he just followed the seven decisions. And it’s interesting that he chose this janitor to meet and greet and be the only one in that time to see him. Because the janitor was so happy to meet David ponder. And you figure out that David ponder and his wife and his kids had become community heroes and become people that really helped change the direction of this group. Because he then from stage he starts watching himself, give this speech and reiterates these seven decisions. Very cool way to sum up the seven decisions, watching yourself, put them into action, and use them and so again, for me, type a high D personality, love checklists, loves systematic things. This is a very easy way for me to read and go, Wow, there’s some decisions I need to put back into gear. And I need to focus on this before worrying about a checklist over here or a formula over there. And I think it’s very easy to get lost in Jon, you’re not a bullet point kind of guy. I am not. So there are a few books that you like the bullet points out of because it gets you out of your comfort zone. And I think that, for me is one of the reasons that I really love how Andy Andrews wrote this, this life changing story. That is truly a story. But it is really seven decisions that we all should chase to grow with is kind of where I would go with it. So he sees himself. Anything you want to talk about seeing, really the eighth person without a decision? Well, the thing

 

Jon Perry  45:25

is, this, as his elder Ponder is speaking, because it’s only been nine years, nine years since the moment of this journey started for him. And his situation financially, socially, economically, everything has changed about as drastic as possibly could happen. So the one thing I took about that in between reading in between the lines is, if you implement these kinds of things, this doesn’t have to take 20 30 40 years to change your life. This can be done, and reward could happen. Quickly.

 

Derek Egeberg  46:08

Well, you made let’s let’s ask a couple personal questions. You made some decisions. Where was where was your business nine years ago?

 

Jon Perry  46:17

Nine years ago, I may have had an employee, maybe it was

 

Derek Egeberg  46:26

built, working in a cramped corner.

 

Jon Perry  46:29

No, no, not the credit. We built out an extra office space at that time, but it was still within the same building. Didn’t have the print shop. Just starting to figure a way to expand services, and do more than just be a solopreneur trying to change how I was going to conduct business.

 

Derek Egeberg  46:54

So a lot of decisions have happened. And a lot of decided hearts have happened. And a lot of I will continue without exception has happened to get you to where you you are were radically different than where and it’s interesting. You know, in my life nines and Thirteen’s are very prevalent. You and I’ve talked about the cool 13 stories, which we’ll get to later. But you know, literally nine years ago, is when this office building in this studio, if if you will, came up. And a lot of people said, Oh, you’re dumb, you’re stupid, let’s you know, don’t do that. But I had a vision of what that would look like. And you think, wow, nine years ago, where were we, you know, renting a small little room over here and not really seeing what this journey could be. But you make a few different choices. And it’s amazing what you can put together. And some of it’s just dumb luck. That if you don’t take the action, if you don’t, you know, say the buck stops here, I have to take the action, which again, you go through these decisions. Where was this book when we were 16. Probably wasn’t written yet. But getting written but you go back down the road of Andy Andrews had to go through some awful life events to get to this book. So for everybody’s benefit, listening to Andy Andrews story. Parents both passed away within a brief period of time in his late teens, and he became homeless under a pier in Alabama. And through a kind hearted gentleman who started giving him books, didn’t give him money, didn’t give him a handout, gave him books to read that would help change his life. He, according to him, read lots of biographies and autobiographies. And you can see, I believe part of this is Andrey Andy’s journey. Yes. And so it’s Andy’s journey. It’s Andy’s life learning, I can see him reading some of these biographies or autobiographies and going, Oh, my gosh, I need to make that decision in my life. And now let me help other people. So one of his concepts is the butterfly effect. And he talks about how one little butterfly flapping its wings on one side of the world can cause storms and affect the climate on the other side of the world, if the right series of events happen. And so for me, what I love about that concept is Andy Andrews flapped his little butterfly wings. And one of the reasons I believe we have the Master Mind Library, and this, this series in studio, is because He flapped his wings and started something to go, Oh my gosh, there’s a path to growth that is so much bigger than what we’ve been doing. Yes. And it’s not a checklist. It’s not a formula. It is, but it’s a formula and a checklist that has to be inside to say, I will do these seven things. And I will basically change who I am to be better for those around me. So, love Andy Andrews book, I love the seven decisions. And he gets back. So very similar to and I don’t want to say it is the wonderful life. That’s not it. But it’s very A Wonderful Life, ask at the end, that he goes back and gets to see his wife, he gets to see his sick daughter. And he gets to write all of the things that he almost wronged by checking out early. And I love that, you know, most of us as Americans love the gritty hard story. And then there’s the smile fairy tale at the end. So the payoff in the end is he gets to have the scrolls. So he winds up after an accident, auto accident winds up in the hospital, the nurse brings his effects. And there’s the pouch that smells like tobacco, with seven squirrels. And any think, wow, if only that could happen to me. And you think Wait a minute, it just did this book is Andy just wrote that for us. You don’t need seven miraculous events and time travel. And he just committed all of this to writing for us. And you got to pay 20 bucks. $25. I mean, if you’re really committed, you go by the audio and the written book, you don’t even have to buy this stuff from his site, which I would say go to Andy Andrews site and look at this stuff. But for 50 bucks, you could listen and read. And it’s the number one book on my library. So from Derek Egeberg, the Approval Coach, I very much appreciate Andy’s willingness to spend time and effort to commit this to writing.

 

Jon Perry  51:54

Absolutely. Again, this is a really great book, I do appreciate it. It’s why it’s on my second shelf. It’s not a discard by any means. Maybe I got to forgive myself for making it sound like a second shelf. Lesser, lesser shell. Absolutely. And again, this is the intro book I would give to anyone to explore Andy Andrews writing in general.

 

Derek Egeberg  52:17

How many of you’ve given these out? Yes. Okay. I have committed myself to this book enough that I’ve probably bought. If it’s not 200, it might be 250 of these and given them out. You know, most of the people I consider influential people I’ve given one to everybody who’s ever worked for me has had one. Friends and family have I mean, gave you one way back in the day. I’ve asked my kids made wink wink nod nod. I’ve asked my kids to read this. And so for me, it’s one of those things where I can see Andy Andrews flapping his little butterfly wings, and hopefully making a difference. And I’m just the median to say, Okay, it’s coming here. And now it’s going there and looking for an amplifier. That’s watch what happens. So again, it’s not forgiving yourself about the book. This is where you think it should be based on where you need to be in life. And what I appreciate about the Master Mind Library, is books can change and based on where your needs are in life and your growth opportunities. Sometimes it’s going to go from shelf three to shelf one. And sometimes you literally are going to have to make the hard decision to go well, it’s not on one, it’s on two, well maybe it’s now on three because I’ve got other things going on. And so it’s not unlike a library that you say, Hey, I’m gonna go check this book out. You know what, there’s 1000s of books in a library that you’ve never touched. And there’s 1000s of books that you probably touch throughout your course of school that you took your read, or you skimmed or you, you told your teacher you read and you put it back and you never really did anything. So doesn’t matter where it is. If it’s on your number two shelf cool, it’s on your number two shelf. But for me, I love the thought that a school teacher from Maine can win the Civil War, and legitimately give us these United States that we still are so thankful for. And so I will always listen to a teacher from Maine from here on out

 

Jon Perry  54:27

if you’d like that, remember, sequel. There’s the distinguished gentleman. Well don’t that’s for another day. That is

 

Derek Egeberg  54:35

for another day. So any last thoughts on Andy Andrews or the the travelers gift?

 

Jon Perry  54:41

Read Andy Andrews. I encourage it. I really like his Jones the noticer that Jones series of books. Just Jones is my favorite one. Yeah, again, I feel like there’s a certain order in my head that may not matter forever the people to get there. But that is my favorite book of it.

 

Derek Egeberg  54:57

So for everybody’s benefit again, there’s there’s at least Just another dozen books that that Andy has out. And you know, learn about Andy’s story of very, you know, dark in some places but very cool story. But I believe like you, you have to read this book first because it tees up all of the others. And so there’s some great books that we’ll talk about Andy Andrews coming down that that pipe if you will. But for me, the travelers gift has to be the number one you read for Andy Andrews because you don’t get some of his story writings and you don’t get some of the things behind it because he weaves these things into all of those other books, sometimes very obviously, sometimes very subtle, very subtly. But from Derek Egeberg the Approval Coach, Andy, thank you so very much for writing this book.

 

Jon Perry  55:48

Jon Perry, Reach Architect. Thank you again. We look forward to hearing what you have to say about this book or anything else. Leave comments in the messages below. And we will see you next time from the Master Mind Library. Signing off for now. Have a good one everyone.