The Go-Giver

Jon Perry  00:09

Even if you don’t like coffee, you can get something out of the Go Giver. A little story about powerful business ideas by Bob Berg and John David Mann. Good morning and welcome to the Master Mind Library. I’m Jon Perry, The Reach Architect.

 

Derek Egeberg  00:23

Good morning. I’m Derek Egeberg, The Approval Coach and I like coffee and you don’t. So are number one, since you open with coffee? Are we both getting something out of this book?

 

Jon Perry  00:34

We are both absolutely getting many things out of this book. It is a great parable about a simple idea that has been around for years, the author’s even acknowledged that what they’re doing is nothing groundbreaking, just putting it together in a very easy way to comprehend. And most importantly, encourage people to execute.

 

Derek Egeberg  00:56

I’m gonna have some coffee. So you’re 100% Right. It’s it is kind of the the book that I expect you to very much love. It’s a parable. It’s a story. It’s easy to follow. And yet there’s some really good nuggets in here.

 

Jon Perry  01:12

Well, yeah, it makes it’s a great story. It is the classic hero’s journey. story formula, where there’s a person who needs guidance, there is a mentor, Master, if you will, who leads them away. It’s a very low key business Star Wars. There you

 

Derek Egeberg  01:30

1. Okay, so downtrodden person needs assistance. And out of this book, very short, easy to read, easy to listen to. Did you feel like you had to struggle to glean any of the nuggets?

 

Jon Perry  01:45

No, they make it very apparent, they actually call him out, they bullet them out, which I know you appreciate. Id type A and they bought them out. And they actually make the protagonists execute on the five points that they point out. And they reiterate them almost at nauseam in a very helpful and remind double way throughout the book. And then at the end of the book, they even ask you questions, and give you homework to further expand upon the nature of the book.

 

Derek Egeberg  02:14

So did you do the homework?

 

Jon Perry  02:16

I have not done the homework. Okay.

 

Derek Egeberg  02:18

So here’s, here’s my, my question is we do a lot of books. And so far, we’ve done a lot of business books and personal growth books. And while listening and reading this because I did both. I can see this as a super business book. But it’s a genuine life book. It is. It is that friend that we all wish we had. It’s that one person you go, man, that person goes out of their way, how do they do that? And this is literally the formula for that. And so whether you want to be a superstar salesman, whether you want to be a superstar manager, you want to be just an all around good person, and be that friend, that family member that mentor, I think this is that formula. So love the book, Jon, is it on your top shelf,

 

Jon Perry  03:06

it was on my second shelf.

 

Derek Egeberg  03:08

Okay, now, I’m curious, because, again, super good book, what makes it first shelf second shelf for you. And I know there’s only 13. But before we get into the book, Why is it on your second shelf?

 

Jon Perry  03:19

I believe that it covers a lot of the same ground as one of my other top shelf books. And so although it preaches in a very specific way, I feel like there is more that can be rapidly gleaned out of the other book than out of this book. It’s nothing against this one. I really enjoy it. I listened to it a couple of times a year. I misspoke earlier, I have done some of the homework, I haven’t done all of the homework at different periods, when it was beneficial to me to dive into it. And so it’s one of those things where and we’re going to come across this again, as we go through other books, when you come across two books that have the similar overlap, which one do you put on the top? And which one do you not? Because if we are to get the most out of the limited space of our top shelf, they should all kind of have a lane that they excel in. And to have two books that excel in the same lane. What are you minimizing as far as trying to impact as quickly as possible?

 

Derek Egeberg  04:26

So I would say the same thing it is on my second shelf, not my top 13. And only because of that one thing is, this is a great overview, a few less tactile things than in the other book that we’re talking about. So you know what I love is Bob and his partner put together five laws, there are five things that you really should do. And it’s funny because you hear these all the time, whether it’s business books or life books or coaching books. And yet it’s so hard to put these things into perspective, like the law of value. And that’s where they start is deliver more value than the remuneration that you’re getting back in return. And how many people go? Well, it’s a quid pro quo. I’ll give you this, if you give me that. And it’s, it’s a, well, a better be even.

 

Jon Perry  05:17

Well, I think that that’s kind of how we are in society to an extent. And I know that I’ve had this mindset for years, I used to take people out to lunch thinking, Okay, everybody needs to eat, let me treat them to lunch, and then maybe someday when I need a favor and call upon them, they’ll reciprocate. No, no, that was the absolute worst thing. I could have been walking into those meetings, thinking I should have been, let me get to know them better, which eventually, as I was reading through other books, they turn these meetings around and into, like, let me get to know them better. Let me know their challenges. Let me understand what they’re about. Let me find out what, how I can help them what I can do. And if at the end of the day, the only thing that can help them was to pay for a meal more than half. Yeah, that’s awesome. I paid for their meal, they didn’t have to worry about a lunch that day. And we could go on with our lives. It’s very easy to be like I did this. So let me get that, oh, no, someone did this. For me. I’m indebted to them. It’s very easy to just get into it. Tip for tat, good or bad. You know, even in you know, personal relationships. You know, we have a very transactional society, by being so transactional heavy of and I gave you this, you give me that I give you this, you give me that? It’s very easy to fall into that mindset. And it’s very hard to step out of it and go, Oh, this could end up becoming a toxic trait. If I don’t watch it, instead of just being generous with what you have, I can give what it is that you have to give value to? And just see where it goes.

 

Derek Egeberg  06:47

Yeah. So you talked about the very tit for tat type of mentality, which, you know, if you look at some of the closing books, there’s people talk about the obligation close and you’re obligating people to do something nice for you, because you did it for them. And you’re right, if you listen to the book, there’s a part where one of the featured characters literally lists like 27 different clauses and all of the various clauses that she used. But where she really gets down to it, is that that law of value is, are you giving away more than you’re expecting in return? And I love that, and I find myself it’s hard to do. It really is, you know, you say, and I really don’t know that I want to do that, because what am I going to get out of it. And we do that all the time in business. Second one is law of compensation. So law of compensation is what

 

Jon Perry  07:44

the law of compensation I think, is great, because it’s the scale of what you can give value at, it’s how much value you can give, you know, if you’re limited to only talking to 10 people, then your compensation is going to be more limited than if your scale is to 100 people, 1000 people, a million people to an extent that’s, you know, when thinking about this, one reason why we started doing this podcast is so that we could reach and get our value to more people about our thoughts on these books. And what we were trying to accomplish to as large of an audience as possible. This is global, putting it out there having it on these platforms where people can listen to or view is global. We want to scale this so that we can get more out of it. Now, it’s not necessarily monetary. We want the feedback. We want other people thought thoughts, we want their perspectives, we want to know how these books touch and affect them. And the only way we’re going to be able to know that is by opening ourselves up to having this platform where they can actually communicate that back to us.

 

Derek Egeberg  08:47

So the influences you want the community at large to say, Hey, Jon Perry, you really should have a cup of coffee, because that’s how you intro the coffee. I love tea, I can’t say so but you’re talking about the law of influence. That’s the Zig Ziglar you can have anything in life that you want, as long as you help enough people get in life what they want. And so they very eloquently talk about that here. And again, as you’re listening this, the characters weave through learning these lessons. And what I love is they say or, or the mentor, if you will, says you have to implement these into your life immediately, immediately. So not I’m going to practice it not I’m going to try next Tuesday, even though you and I are Tuesday, people we’re not gonna try next Tuesday. It’s right now that day. And what I love is, and I’ve been part of coaching programs that there’s penalties and things when you don’t do it. What I love is the mentor in the book says, You don’t have to owe me anything. You just have to honor your own conscience, if you will. And so if you don’t do it, then we’re done with the whole coaching thing. But it’s on your honor, and how many people when the light is not on They don’t really follow through with the things they know they’re supposed to, it’s really

 

Jon Perry  10:03

difficult. They’re we have this mentality that unless we have some skin in the game, there’s not as much value to it. Nobody gives away value for free. And that’s a huge misconception. And another thing that they mentioned is that

 

Derek Egeberg  10:17

Wait is that way last week’s book was on your shelf for six years before you read it because it was free,

 

Jon Perry  10:22

possibly, possibly impossibly, I didn’t realize the value value in that one book, in the way that it was. And again, going back to this, the other thing he talks about is, a lot of very successful people want to share their secrets, I want to point out why they’re successful. Because they feel that the world can be a better place, if the simple truth are universally shared and adhere to, there’s a reason why these people have done as well as they have. And they’re not trying to hoard it. And some some of them, yes, try to get keep on how they’re access, majority of them want you to understand them. That’s why there’s a lot of biographies and autobiographies about these great people out there because they want to share how they got to where they got, so that you can also get to where you want to go.

 

Derek Egeberg  11:15

And one of the things in the book is the the mentor in the book talks about why he’s willing to meet with our hero, if you will. And it’s because most of the people who are genuinely super successful care and want other people to get ahead, they just don’t have many people calling and asking them for help. Because everybody assumes it’s really expensive. They’re too busy. They’re, they’re at a different level. They don’t want to help. And I think most people genuinely want to help influence other people. And that’s that third laws, are you influencing other people,

 

Jon Perry  11:50

I think a certain level in certain aspects of life, people become intimidating. Now, when it comes to successful people, it could be that, you know, how many times have we heard, nobody asks the model out because they feel that she’s too attractive, or he’s too attractive, and they’re out of their league. It’s something that we’ve heard, you know, in predicting those for like, the very, very successful local entrepreneur. Why does nobody asked them out to lunch to find out how they got started, what they got into what they’re going on with, because clearly they’re busy, they’re a very important person, they’re on top of their nonprofit boards and philanthropy efforts. Yet, no one’s taking the effort to actually just get to see them as a person, they see him as a, as a legend or, or a status symbol. And he starts off at this he meets with the protagonist wants to meet with him initially, because of his clout and his status, and what he could potentially bring to something not because he was genuinely interested, that flipped pretty quickly. And I think that it happened with the third law, which is

 

Derek Egeberg  12:58

the law of influence. Yes. So and when you again, going back to that whole Zig Ziglar you know, you can have as much in life as you want, as you help other people get more than than that. But when you say the law of influence, everybody has influence, it’s just a matter of is a good influence as a bad influence. Are you willing to go look for influence? Are you are you seeking genuine help? And and are you offering authentic help, which I think the the third law of influence and the fourth law of authenticity, really go hand in hand because he went there, the the protagonists went to the mentor, not seeking authentic help, he went there to find a secret now get an A quick fix to fix a problem that was stressing him out. But at the end of the book, he really does authentically admit he went there for all the wrong reasons. And he didn’t even understand what the reason was. And I love that that nugget of wisdom where the the mentor in the book says, well, that’s not why you came, you came because you were basically seeking wisdom and a new path, if you will. And so even though he went there for the wrong reasons, you know, kind of ultimately, he went there for the right reason is he knew something was wrong. There’s a new path and I need to authentically become a bigger version of myself, to help other people and I think that’s kind of what the Master Mind Library is, is look, being brutally authentic is as Bob Berg says, Jon, are you perfect? Oh, far from it. And I’m, you know, not even close. But you and I being authentic here, look, whether you like coffee, you don’t like coffee, whether you wear a sports coat or not, whether we’re liked or not, thumbs up, thumbs down. authentically. This is Derek and Jon, sharing what we think about books. And it’s better to be the authentic version. Have yourself and do things for the right reason and influence people for their benefit, not your own. And that’s what I love about this book is, in less than two hours, we’ve gone through four really good laws that, you know, I can do all of these and I can implement every one of them right now today, to be giving more value, I can be more influential for other people’s benefit, I can take you less compensation than what I demand of other people. And I can genuinely be the authentic version of myself, I love those four. And it was really hard not to put this book up on the top shelf. But like you say, there’s one that that really tactically, there’s a few things that I I’ve taken from it. Now, the fifth law is probably the hardest one for me to get. So what’s the fifth law, Jon,

 

Jon Perry  15:55

the fifth law is the law of receptivity, which is a mouthful for me to say, because I always want to say reciprocity, receptivity, totally different, completely different things. It is being open and being receptive to what could come back your way, they make a great analogy in the book of breathe out for 30 seconds, and you go first. And it’s very difficult to breathe out for 30 seconds for a lot of people because they start to sputter and somewhere between 15 and 25 seconds. Now, the thing is, you can’t breathe out without breathing in, we can’t go up sometimes without going down there cyclical natures of life and everything around us. So being open to receiving, whether it’s compensation, whether it’s compliments, whether it’s knowledge, whether it’s a lot of things, you do all this other work, so that eventually something will come out back to you. It’s not like the obligation closed, where you try to guilt them into doing something for you, it’s, you create a genuine, authentic impact with that person, and they authentically then care about you, and want to help you out as well. And part of that is they talk about this formula of that leads into the influence in authenticity, which benefits the receptivity of, like, know and trust. You want to work with people that you like, know and trust. There’s a lot of people that I know, I think, no, it’s easiest to do, it’s the bare minimum, you get the name out there. You can like a lot of people. And I think that, you know, a lot of people like me, I think a lot of people in our community like you and what you do. And then there’s that trust factor, that trust factor goes from giving them a shot at something to they’re your default. They’re your go to, I trust you with everything to do with financing mortgages, and houses and everything. And so I would always come and talk to you about anything, I would refer people to talk to you about anything, whether you can help them or not, there’s just that trust there that I know that you will have an answer. It is not based upon the cheapest monetary price, or the most expensive monetary price, it just goes to I know you can solve these problems, and I have no doubt that you can guide them on a path, even if it’s not beneficial to you. That’s the hardest part, I think, is building that trust factor in this little formula with people to get that level of influence and authenticity. Because like I said, people don’t know, care how much you know, until they know how much you care. And that all kind of comes back and then being open again to once you’re all into people, then they start to becoming all into you and you got to be open for the compliment.

 

Derek Egeberg  18:48

Well, and what you were just doing paying those compliments, here’s there’s two different ways to respond to that. There’s the Hey, no problem, you know, and you’re literally pushing people away, or there’s the Hey, Jon, it’s my pleasure, and you’re leaning into people. You know, you go to Chick fil A, they have a fantastic training program where everybody there is taught to say, My pleasure, and you go into a lot of places, and it’s no problem, you know, not a big deal. And it’s that verbal standoff. And so when you talk about that receptivity, it is, are you receptive to the gift? How many times do people give a gift? And the recipient of the gift doesn’t accept and say, Thank you so very much. They say, Oh, no, you didn’t have to do that, oh, take it back. That’s too expensive. Oh, you shouldn’t have done that. And you basically are stepping on that gift and you’re stopping that, that, that feeling that the gift or wanted to give you something of value, and so you have to be receptive to it. So even when you say hey, here’s a compliment, be receptive to it and genuinely thank people in Again, same thing for you, Jon. Everything I’ve ever done, print and graphic design has been with you, I mean, you can look at our company from top to bottom left to right. And it’s literally your fingerprints are on all of it. I don’t want to do anything unless you’ve looked at it, you know, you, you understand terms that, okay, when you talk about whitespace and color wheels and the emotional pneus of the calamity, you’re smiling, because I do listen. But I want to trust that, okay, you’ve got this. And if I make a mistake, you’re gonna point it out. So, and I know you have a hard time accepting those receptive comments as well. Why?

 

Jon Perry  20:42

I think it just goes to I don’t want to say trying to be humble, it’s one of those things of you know, taking a slight twist. As a creative, and most creatives I know, have some sort of mental illness issue. And I think there’s a certain level of self confidence and doubt, do I know my stuff is amazing. Yes, I absolutely know my stuff’s amazing. I know that what I do is fantastic. And I have no doubt in my ability. With that, with that, with that being said, when somebody else says something about it, it, it’s not my confidence, that’s hearing it, it’s my self doubt, that’s, I don’t know, it’s something weird, that’s a little weird in my head, and it’s, it becomes like, all of a sudden, like that five year old kid who’s like, Aw, shucks, you know, now. And so it’s taken years to get to the point of being thank you and appreciate a for when people truly appreciate what I do, it makes me want to do more for them, because they see the value in what I do. And the little things that are really subjective in what we do as a creative community, and what we provide for our friends and our clients. Because there’s a subjective value, it’s not that I can, on the creative side, it’s not that I can produce 10 things, it’s, it’s not a quantity, it’s not a commodity, that’s as easily as if we printed 20 books for you, you can sell those 20 books, and you can make X or you could do X with it, it’s not quite the same there, the ROI is a little bit more fluid, because it’s got to wind certain roads and go down certain paths until it ultimately becomes whatever it becomes. We’ve done stuff for you that has taken years to kind of work its way into being the right way of it being.

 

Derek Egeberg  22:37

So if you go through the book, and the five laws for everybody, great book, easy to read, very well thought out story that kind of leads you into learning without realizing you’re learning. I mean, it’s it’s obvious when they give you the titles and the bullet points of each chapter. But super easy read. And I think my 14 1516 year old kids could read it. I think 60 year old season, salespeople should read it. I think everybody in between should read this book. And at the same time, don’t just read it, implement it. And if you said today, Tuesday, because we’re Tuesday, people, we’re going to implement five of these things, all five, and just be authentically different. I think it’s going to make a huge difference. So you know, Jon, are you going to give more value today than you expect in compensation? Yes. Cool. Are you going to authentically be more of your real self to the Master Mind Library community? Yes. So you know, you go down that road. And I would say, Jon, you’re already an authentic person, the way Bob describes it, because you showed up here on the morning of your mom’s passing that night before you authentically wanted to make a difference for the Master Mind Library. And you also asked me to do the Tuesdays with maurey book, because that was my mom’s favorite book. And it’s just interesting that if you’re with a group of people that you trust, and you care about them, then these five laws become, I think, easier to implement. Now, when you walk out the door, and I’m speaking for myself as well, when we walk out the door, and we’re meeting people that we don’t know, genuinely, can we still give good value? Can we be receptive to the comments? Can we be the authentic version of ourselves, and not have to be the chameleon salesperson or the chameleon creative, that we get so trapped in?

 

Jon Perry  24:45

I think that that’s that fine line, we got to be open to what they’re being receptive to. I can only give so much value if I can only give so much if they want me to water their plants. So with a little watering bucket, I got to do that not with a fire hose. And so I got to, that’s the one thing that as professionals, we got to see if we’re engaging with people for the first time, we got to see what they’re receptive to, if they’re going to be trapped in a certain mentality of limitation, or are they open to growth, whether whether it means helping them financially or helping them with business or helping them personally, whatever I can do to help whatever you can do to help them, we got to see what they’re open to? Because Are we really adding value if they are not ready to receive any of it if they just there’s one part in the book where the protagonist is talking with his wife. And it goes back to the same thing where it’s, she is venting about her day, and to the point where she goes to sleep. And he wakes in tears in tears, not about him now. And I just read the book now. No, no, no, if in the morning, he wakes up, and he sees a note from her just saying she felt hurt. She wasn’t looking for him to solve her problems. She wasn’t looking for him to fix her problems. She just wanted to be heard. Sometimes, we got to be in a position where people aren’t asking us for answers or solutions as well. They’re not asking for stuff, they just need to be heard. And so when dealing with people we’ve never met before, we got to see where they’re at, so that we can properly meet their needs, it’s not masking ourselves, it just may mean dialing back the nozzle on the hose to provide the right amount of water to make that relationship grow.

 

Derek Egeberg  26:42

Now, one of the things that I genuinely like, as the mentor wasn’t necessarily teaching the lessons, he was connecting the protagonist with other people that would introduce the lessons because of how they’ve lived. But it was really up to him whether he wanted to glean the lesson and have that aha moment. And, you know, again, I like you’re talking about with the nozzle. So often you see people go, you need to do this. And that pushes people back and they don’t want to be part of it. Instead of introduce the concept, have that guided mentor ship, and then let people flourish at their own speed. Because I know, you have the most precocious little daughter. Yes. Okay. Can you force her to grow? No, no, she’s going to grow at her own speed on her own. So if you, as Bob does here, if you introduce things to her, and she learns it, oh, she’ll be all over it. But if it’s one of those things where mom and dad want to force it, I don’t know that I’ve met another stubborn little girl like that, you know, and trust me, my kids are stubborn. And so I get stubborn kids. But that’s a good realization for me that you know, even when it’s staff and partners, there’s times that you just can’t force it, you have to be authentically yourself. Give the value and give more than as expected. But then just be receptive to whatever happens. Yes. And as you start mixing all these things, it’s like, and this is a really good book, and it’s been out for years. And you think there’s so many good books, and this is this was hard not to put it on the top shelf. And again, you know, no offense to Bob, we’ve only got 13 on our personal shelves. And as life changes books ebb and flow on and off that shelf.

 

Jon Perry  28:43

Let me ask you this, though. Have you purchased this book to give away? I have, I’ve given ballpark? How many of you Oh, I’ve

 

Derek Egeberg  28:50

probably given 75, probably between 75 and 100 copies?

 

Jon Perry  28:55

Yeah, I’ve given away probably 20 to 25, it is absolutely a great one to give away. Because again, just because it’s that fine line of everything. Just because that other book might have more points doesn’t always mean it’s going to, again, meet where other people are receptive to, and this one might be a slightly easier introduction. So it’s that fine line of what’s the most impact what can be the most impactful versus what can be the most immediate,

 

Derek Egeberg  29:21

you know, that would be an interesting thing for the Master Mind Library is tracking which book you give out the most. I would have to venture to say that this is probably in the top eight to 10 books certainly in the top 10 but might be in the top eight books that I’ve ever given out in terms of quantity, because it it appeals to more of the masses in a way that is easy to read. And it’s not over the top in your face even though it is bullet point. Well,

 

Jon Perry  29:53

it’s only five bullet points then it’s an it’s not an the bullet points are open ended. They’re not the pistol there isn’t a bullet point with some bullet points of this, this, this and this. So with that in mind, it leaves a lot of things. Now the one impressive thing, you know, as far as storytelling goes is how quickly this guy picks up on all these principles. Because as you said, he is not the mentor is more of a facilitator of introducing these concepts, the protagonist actually has to pick up on every single one of them, including the last one with himself. And I don’t know many people that are that bright?

 

Derek Egeberg  30:32

Well, it’s a short book, How to pick it up a little bit quicker. So that, you know, again, you could write that story any way. But are you genuinely better for having read this book,

 

Jon Perry  30:44

I am genuinely better for having read this book. Same Same here. So

 

Derek Egeberg  30:47

I appreciate the author’s both of the authors. But I appreciate the author’s willingness to commit this. And I know they’ve they’ve spoken and taught this a lot over the years.

 

Jon Perry  30:59

And they have a couple of other books that are in this universe. And so if people really enjoy this book, they’ll absolutely enjoy the other two books. And it’ll be interesting to see what what you think about this, but much, we’d love to hear your comments and responses to it. Whether you email us or can leave comments in below, or however makes the most sense, or go to our website mass, mm library.com for this book, or other podcasts that we have out, and is there anything else you want to add?

 

Derek Egeberg  31:33

We I would genuinely genuinely like to hear what people’s feedback is I? You know, I know that there’s times you and I gravitate to a story. It’s the hero’s journey, as you’ve said, but there’s some great life principles in here. And is this the style that many of you like do you like more of a type A high D bullet point of a book, but we’d love to know what you think and look forward to hearing from you and comment down below, send emails, etc. And I love the book and I do read this every year.

 

Jon Perry  32:13

Well, Jon Perry, The Reach Architect with Derek Egeberg, The Approval Coach, thank you for joining us this morning on the Master Mind Library. We’ll see you next time. Have a great morning

 

Derek Egeberg  32:23

everyone. Enjoy a cup of coffee.

 

Jon Perry  32:24

Bye for now.